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Denver Miller

08 Project Summary


1.  General Overview of the Proposed Project:

 

Creation of a web based virtual government.  Students will function in the role of US Senators, debating issues and passing laws.  Students will be given identities for which they must present reasonably accurate positions.  Debates will be held on discussion forums.  Voting will take place out on the website.  Laws passed will be put before the President for approval or veto.  Laws passed will impact the nation and will be viewable on the nation’s home page.  Decisions made will affect tax level, public support, etc., as well as have a brief summary describing the impact of the decision.

 

2.  Clear Purpose and Objective:

 

Purpose- to allow students an active role in government participation.

 

Objective- students will understand functions of government, roles of Senate, President, and Supreme Court, perspective of different historical groups, and impact of government decisions.

 

3.  Stakeholders: grade level, who will benefit, who will participate in this project.

 

Focus is 11th grade, though 7th and 8th are likely to benefit as well.

 

4.  U.S. History Content Area

 

From Constitution to present, overview of major topics facing the nation.

 

5.  Outline Describing Content

 

Contact will focus on major issues at first.  The goal will be one issue a week that corresponds with topics soon covered in class.  Major issues: Hamilton’s financial plan, Expansion of Slavery, Secession and Civil War, Industrialization, Depression, World War and Wars, Cold War, inflation, etc.

 

6.  Software to be used, internet materials, contacts, etc.

 

Internet website, created with the GST BOCES Technical Team, accessible from any internet connection and with a password clearance.  Teachers will have managing control.

 

7.  Level of Student Involvement

 

All decisions made by students, but choices and results are preset by teacher that authors the issue.

 

8.  Evaluation process (include students when possible)

 

The biggest pay off will come in comparing virtual decisions made by the class to actual history.  This could be a journal or essay done by students, newspapers, or other creative projects.

 

9.  Timeline: how you envision the project being carried out between start up and  conclusion

 

Project will be introduced early in the year and carried out weekly.  Virtual government will only focus on major issues.  All other events will be considered the same as true history to move along the timeline.  It will be concluded in April or May and with a final project evaluating their individual role in the government.

 


 

Denver Miller

Self-Evaluation: online virtual government for use in American History classes

 

Important Information:

Web Sites:

www.nationmaker.org – This is NationMaker, the primary site for this project, though still under construction.

http://www.toolboxpro.org/classrooms/template.cfm?ID=1251 – This is my classroom web site.  Follow the link on the left the ‘Virtual World’ and you will see the site update page.  This is a temporary home for the nations until the nationmaker is up and running.

www.nationstates.org – This is the site that inspired nationmaker.  It is not a necessity to visit, but I’ve included it incase it is found significant by others who may want to use/see it.

 

Attachment:

I have attached the PowerPoint that served as the basis for development the nationmaker website.  It is more complete than the current nationmaker site and may help others get a clear view how the site will function.

 

NationMaker PowerPoint

 

Vision:

 

Two years ago I discovered a virtual nation simulation game called NationStates.  I believe it still functions and can be visited at www.nationstates.org.  At this site you are able to create your nation and your home page gives a basic description of your country.  This description includes vital statistics and several paragraphs that describe recent events in your country.  The basic idea is that each day you enter the site you will be presented with an issue that needs your attention.  Based on what you choose to do, your nation’s home page is updated, and you can see the results your decision had on your country, popularity, people, etc. 

 

I couldn’t help but think about how this could be applied to my classes as a way to get students involved in the political process.  NationStates is open to all people, but do have special accommodations for teachers and students.  After using this program for one year, I decided that it was moderately useful.  Students gained an understanding of politics (mostly modern issues) and how the decisions made by governments can impact the nation. 

 

The negative with the site was that I found some of the issues less than significant and sometimes simply silly.  Also, there was no real cross-over between class and NationStates, limiting the usefulness of the program.  I began to muse about the usefulness of a NationStates created specifically for use in the classroom, though did not have any plans of creating it myself.

 

That summer I attended the Teachers Discovering History as Historians program.  When I began to think about the possible project ideas I returned to the idea of NationStates.  I submitted a proposal using NationStates as a model for a more focused program, better suited to the needs of the classroom.  Instead of each student running their own nation, we would create a single government and the students would play the role of senators, voting on issues facing the nation.  Topics would be based on true historical issues and mirror any topics being covered in class.  Students would have the ability to stay true to factual decisions or deviate from history.

 

Being that I did not have the technical prowess necessary for this project on my own, I contacted the technology team at the GSTBOCES campus.  They were quite excited by the prospect and we began to trade ideas back and forth and development began.  Knowing that the site would not be completed on time for the school year, I decided to begin practicing with the concept by utilizing my classroom web site and a program used by the district called toolboxpro.

 

Goals:

 

To create an on-line platform for a virtual government. 

To allow students to fill the role of a politician dealing with major historical issues and guiding their virtual nation along a path that will parallel American history. 

To create an understanding of the stresses upon our nation and the perspectives different people had in the government. 

To create an understanding of the consequences of the action for governmental decisions.

 

 

Method:

 

Students will take on the role of politicians, mostly that of Senators.  They will elect a president, who will have veto power and direct the nation on major issues.  Political issues based on actual historical issues will be presented to the class for them to discuss, propose action, debate, and vote upon.  At times, the class will be made to vote on a more restricted course of action directed by the instructor.  Results will be generated based upon historical fact as well as reason (at the discretion of the instructor) based on likely reactions of the nation to these decisions.  The role and power of the House of Representatives will be in the hands of the instructor to insure that, if the class deviates from reality in their voting too far, the House can act in a more reasonable matter.

 

The teacher will create an issue, usually based on an actual issue faced by our government in the past.  Usually one or two choices will be set forth, again created by the teacher.  Students will debate these issues and vote (either to pass or reject a proposal, or between the two choices).  Once the voting is completed, students will be able to see how their decision impacted the nation.  Results will be pre-created by the instructor, with two possible outcomes (or more depending on the number of choices students could make).  These results will be as long or as short as desired, but should show the impact of their vote. 

 

Once the actual site is up and running, teachers will have the ability to create their own issues and results as well as have access to those created by other teachers.  This will allow for individual and collective expansion of the ‘library’ of issues at a teacher’s disposal.

 

Web Site:

 

Needing technical assistance to create this portion of the project, I turned to our BOCES technology experts Andy Gillete and David Bates.  These two have worked closely with me on developing ideas for how the project should proceed, discussing capabilities and limitations, and suggesting ideas for how best construct not only the site, but the virtual government as well.  Mr. Bates has primarily been in charge of site design.  Their assistance on the site has been vital, yet due to obligations of their work, this site has been a project for them to work on as time allows.  As such, the virtual government I ran this year had to function under the most convenient means at my disposal and no functioning, interactive site was used by my students.

 

Instead of actually working within the desired format, I ran the government through a combination of my classroom homepage and Toolboxpro, an online program developed by the same gentlemen mentioned above.  Toolboxpro has many features, among which is a class discussion board, which is where governmental discussions and voting took place this year. Included below are several examples of discussion board conversations that took place this year via toolboxpro.  It was not ideal, but it worked as a learning experience for the next step in the process.

 

(Included with this document is a PowerPoint that outlines the basics on how the eventual website will function.  It was this PowerPoint that the BOCES developers based the structure of the website upon.)

 

(Also, to view the website as it is currently constructed, visit the following link.)  www.nationmaker.org

Use the player login – jdoe (login and password)

There is not much to do here yet, but you can see the concept is under development.  I hope to run the simulator from this site in the next school year and open it up to other teachers by midyear or the following school year at the latest.

This website will be accessible to anyone in the grant program, though this will need to be set up between TDHAH, myself, and the BOCES gentlemen.  At this point I’m not sure how access will be granted but one of the following will have to happen first: I will either provide all teachers the necessary access information, or TDHAH will need to provide me with a list of teachers for me to bring to BOCES.

 

Reflections:

 

I found this project to be a very useful tool, albeit limited by some circumstances.  Below I will reflect on the strengths and weaknesses of the program as it stands and explain future goals and ideas.

 

Primarily, I envisioned a program where students could take an active role in governing America through some of the most tumultuous issues in American history.  I did not, however, have a clear idea about how far to allow the students to deviate from true American history.  I fully expected students to vote in ways not likely in 18th century America.  Past prejudices and true repercussions do not exist, and many students didn’t willingly submit to the views of the past.  For example, I had to decide if I would allow students to take action against slavery early on in their virtual world.   And, if I did, would that bring the Civil War to fruition earlier and would that then destroy the fledgling nation.  Keeping issues like this in mind, I had to try to regulate how far from reality I would let the students go.

 

In two of the samples given below, students were addressing Slavery (Missouri Compromise) and Indian Removal (Worcester v. Georgia).  In both cases, the overwhelming consensus of the class was to take more modern action, abolishing slavery and allowing the natives to remain in Georgia.  In the first case, slavery, I had to try to limit the freedom of students.  They would have desired to eliminate it flat out, the repercussions be damned.  This issue was resolved when the students accepted a Presidential proposal to admit Missouri as a slave state and offer economic incentives to all states to abolish slavery.  The results created a minor wave of dissatisfaction with southern states who opposed any governmental attempts to regulate state issues with bribes.

 

In the second case, Indian Removal, I felt that it was a scenario where I could allow the kids to deviate from fact.  In our world, the Supreme Court case was upheld by our president and Georgia could not force removal.  In the results of this class decision I had Georgia threaten secession from the union, and attempt to force removal of the natives.  The president had to take action with military force to protect the natives.  The issue was eventually resolved to a far enough degree that this deviation did not change other historical events after the fact, but did make Georgia more in favor of secession from then on.

 

Issues with the Students:

 

The major problem I was up against was the modern views of the students.  I should have foreseen this.  Any role-playing activity in a traditional in-class setting works best when the teacher provides roles for students to play for the sake of realism.  As a result, next year students will be give roles such as ‘southern plantation owner,’ ‘northern abolitionist,’ ‘nativist,’ etcetera.   These roles will be backed up with various characteristics and interests.  Students will still have freedom of choice in voting, but they will have a perspective to help focus their decisions.  A southern plantation owner is not likely to support outlawing slavery if it will hurt their economic standing.

 

Another problem that came up was the fact that all students’ names appeared next to their comments.  The role they played was, essentially, their own.  This led to some limited personal attacks that had to be regulated, as well as good ideas ignored or dismissed due to dislike of the person proposing them.  David Bates suggested for the web site, the creation of Avatars (or virtual identities).  Avatars are used in many on-line role playing games to protect the identities of individuals, as well as to add realism and variety to the ‘world’ they inhabit (among other reasons).  In correlation with the issue mentioned above, the Avatars can come with descriptions of the person and areas of interest for them to be concerned with. (Teachers would have access to which students match which characters.)

 

Another issue that I anticipate the creation of roles and Avatars to deal with comes in the realm of odd-ball behavior.  Some students posted silly or strange comments just for the sake of being silly (single word comments such as “booger” and “fart” among the more intellectually cunning).  While this will always be an issue in a free forum, I think the Avatars will help focus students on the issue at hand.  When questioned about lack of participation or odd-ball behavior, many students commented to me that they didn’t “really know what to think” or do on certain topics.  With a focused description, this problem would be minimized.

 

Finally, as the examples below show, the way students speak on the discussion board tends to be informal, slang is used, and some instant messaging and text speech is used.  I will have to decide on how to deal with this.  I do not want to turn students off from debating the issues, yet the way they debate can sometimes seem childish.  The samples below have some examples of this.  In the end, this might also be solved with Avatars as well.

 

Issues with the process:

 

Some students do not have the world knowledge necessary to understand how political debates take place.  Nor do many understand how to make a public statement, debate an issue intellectually, or persuade others to accept their point of view.  I found that a minority of students ran this government and dominated the responses, while others fell victim to the echo syndrome or simply participated to a limited degree, and a few simply did not comment much or at all.

 

Next year I will teach this process to the students in a more formal method.  I think, perhaps, a ‘training session’ based around the ratification of the Constitution would be a good way to achieved this.

 

Voting was also a bit of a nightmare for me.  There was no automated vote and students would vote in most cases right within the forum where discussion had taken place.  Discussions sometimes continued after voting was closed.  I spent more time than desirable counting votes and chasing students down that had yet to vote.  This was more a problem resulting from the format of toolboxpro discussion boards being used instead of the planned web site.  When established, voting will be counted automatically through the web program giving instantaneous results.

 

A similar issue dealt with creating believable, historically reasonable results for every issue.  Understandably, any deviations will need to be created by the teacher, but I found it fatiguing to constantly be creating these results.  Under the website, these things would all be created ahead of time by the instructor, or other instructors using the site.  While this still means the results have to be written, once done, these would be re-useable from year to year.  Also, as more teachers begin to use the program, others could access issues created by other educators to use as their own.

 

Successes:

 

Student Involvement:

While I already mentioned that some students didn’t get involved, overall, most did, in some cases, to a great degree.  Many would talk about the issues outside of class or before or after the period.  The discussion boards also posted times and dates of comments and many times I noticed students getting on at 10 o’clock at night. 

 

Of major interest were elections.  We held 4 elections this year and that is when many students paid the most attention to what was happening.  Being an actual election year, this led into teachable moments aplenty.

 

Probably the most popular issue however, dealt with war.  Wanting to create an autonomous government, I allowed students to consider and engage in war.  (I had several nations functioning: One for the juniors, one for the 8th grade, and two for each of my global classes.  This formed a virtual world.  The nations interacted with foreign policies and in one case, war.

Some students repeatedly tried to turn this into a war game, but as vital repercussions would impact their nation and their ability to make war or even survive, I found that this didn’t happen much.  Once, just after mid-year, one of my global classes held a rebellion against their king.  Other nations got involved with various sides of the conflict and it expanded to include every nation except the 8th grade (who simply didn’t get mobilized in time to join before one side was defeated).  The leaders of the nations had to discuss terms of the peace treaty and sign it.  That had to be accepted by US congress.  It was probably the highlight of the year for many students.

 

Content Coverage:

I was able to introduce events to students through this program prior to coverage in class.  This allowed students to debate issues free of influence from me or history.  Some of the more motivated students researched topics on their own and proposed either the actual historical solution, or an alternative one to try to avoid failures of our government.  Others used their own sense of right and wrong, applying their views to the given topics.  This was both positive and negative, the latter of which was discussed above.  On the positive side, these people were more passionate about their argument, though sometimes were ignorant of some of the essential facts presented by the more thorough students.

 

I was also able to present events after coverage in class, to give the class the opportunity to avoid major problems in American History.  The biggest single issue was the Civil War.  The class tried valiantly to avoid the Civil War.  What was useful in presenting the information in this manner was that students began to realize how many forces were at work in tearing the nation apart, and how very different the perspectives of different people were.

 

Functioning Government:

Despite any challenges, we did function as a government.  Student participation in NationStates (the program I used the first year) started dropping off dramatically at mid-year and by the end of the year there was only a third of the class still active.  This government never saw negative fluctuation with participation.  There were only a few students completely reluctant to participate and the vast majority of students were active in voting and checking in on results.  Even students that did not lead debates or comment often did vote and continue to check in.  We fought wars and conducted peace negotiations.  We elected leaders and made policies.  We explored new lands and negotiated with foreign leaders.  We learned a bit about the functions of government.

 

 

Self-Assessment:

 

I knew going in that this project was a large undertaking.  The development of the website seemed the more arduous task but in practice, the demands of creating issues and results and managing the government was highly time-consuming as well.  The decision to include all my classes (global included), increased the work-load.  As such, the program has not been developed as completely as I would have wished over the past year, yet this was not for lack of trying. 

 

I believe I have created a useful tool for use in the classroom.  I believe it will be an addition some teachers will find very useful and students will enjoy, if for nothing else, then for the interaction with technology that is second nature to them.

 

This provides an alternative to traditional means of introducing and reviewing information.  It enriches the curriculum and provides students some first-hand experience in the functioning of our government.

 

In the future I will lessen some of the freedom of the responses, create rolls for students to fulfill, and bring the entire program to the nationmaker website to begin the process of creating and cataloging the library of issues and results.  These will be based off of what was started this year.  As this will be accessible by other teachers, attention will be paid to factual history, particular wording, and realistic results.  I will also begin to troubleshoot problems with the site and bugs that need to be dealt with.  Once the website is tested to a reasonable degree it will be opened up to other educators.

 

 

SAMPLES

Forum: 11th Grade Virtual Government

Topic: Issue #1: Foreign Policy - created at 12:31:57 PM on 10/30/2007 by Mr. Miller

Text: Foreign Policy Protects the Interests of our nation.

This topic was last updated at 09:05:37 PM on 12/02/2007

Posted By

Message

Action  

Mr. Miller on
10/30/2007 at 12:37:23 PM

Issue: What is at stake here is the security and strength of our nation.  We are a new nation and enforcing our will is a challenge. 

1. What should our stance be concerning European influence in our Hemisphere?

2. What role, if any, should we take in Europe?

3. What should our role toward Latin America and the rest of our hemisphere be?

Debate it, but the best arguments present a clear plan.  Look to history for guidance if you'd like (we have covered this in class).

If a plan is presented, we will vote on it.  If opposing arguments are presented, we will take the most articulate and vote between them.

While a plan of action can be developed by many people, one person usually writes it up or presents it to the Senate.  It is more cohesive that way. (Like Jefferson writing the Dec. of Indpendence, it represented it all, but he wrote it.)

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Matthew on
10/31/2007 at 07:26:00 AM

as  a new nation we should really pay attention to our european influence and our immmigration policies bc even today in our govt. cacuasions are almost the minority at 51% what would we do as the minority and spanish bein the major language in a english spoken country?

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Matthew on
10/31/2007 at 07:26:40 AM

i think that europe should have a limited influence in our nation,and that we should for the most part stay out of europes buisness,to avoid any potential international conflicts.

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Giorgio on
10/31/2007 at 07:33:13 AM

i think we should let there be some influence but not so much that people covert there ways to it. we should alow some but not let it get over powering. if people want more influence than others its there choice not the govts.

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Kathleen on
10/31/2007 at 07:35:41 AM

I think we should keep in mind everything that would change with decisions we make for our new government. We should keep in mind what kind of life we'd all have if our Hemisphere took on more European influence.

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Thomas on
10/31/2007 at 07:37:38 AM

I think we should pay close attention to all the foreign people coming to the U.S. More people keep coming into the united states. Mexicans could be the most found race in the United states before long. I think border control should be stronger also. No mexicans sneaking over. hah

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Stephen on
10/31/2007 at 07:46:28 AM

I think that we should start limiting the rights for immigrants to come over here.

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Patrick on
10/31/2007 at 07:51:30 AM

i think all the religious differences will cause trouble. the irish mainly. we need to some how limit their population.

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Marshall on
10/31/2007 at 11:10:15 AM

I think that we should stay out of european affairs unless it affects us.

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Cassandra on
10/31/2007 at 11:16:56 AM

Being a new country, we need to be careful about what we allow to influence us. On the topic of European influences, I think it would have to depend on what exactly is being influenced. There will always be some cultural diffusion between The US and Europe, but things such as political views, and traditions not common to the US should be carefully voted on. Also I believe certain policies should be voted on to protect the views that we want in our new country.

I do not believe we need to take any action in Europe. We wanted them to leave us alone and to break free of them, why should we go back to that country to take actions?

I don't think we need to take any actions in any other countries unless foreigners are on our soil threatening our freedoms or if there is something intolerable being done to our country. I do not feel that we need to go around taking action against others without a very good reason. I also think that the decision to take action in another country should be voted on.

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Matthew on
10/31/2007 at 11:18:41 AM

I thnk that we should make more of an efort to keep the illegal aliens out of the U.S.it is sad when we have to listen about illegal aliens being able to get New York tate driver licences 

 

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Justin on
10/31/2007 at 01:43:21 PM

I belive that we should stay out of foriegn affairs until our country and government is more established

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Kelly on
10/31/2007 at 01:44:05 PM

we should do what is the best interest  for our country and for our people and that we should pass laws that will end up benefiting our people and we should try to keep all foregin policies out of our government..

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Mr. Miller on
11/06/2007 at 04:45:59 PM

I would like to make a point about current events and our virtual government are separate.

For current event concerns like illegal aliens, go to current events.  For discussions on government issues, we should stay in the era being discussed.

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Mr. Miller on
11/06/2007 at 04:50:19 PM

I would like someone to take the incentive here to write up a policy.  When possible look to class for ideas.  We have covered this issue and would be very easy for one of you to take the policy and present it to class.  Or, if you'd like, present the opposite policy to take a different course for our country.

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Mr. Miller on
11/06/2007 at 04:54:07 PM

I would like a proposal today to vote on next time.

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Kody on
11/07/2007 at 08:33:36 AM

i think we should stay out of foreign affairs. so we as a country can  get stronger.

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Connie on
11/07/2007 at 08:35:56 AM

For right now we should stay out of forigen issues since our nation is still to young...the wrong choice can ruin ouor country.

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Patrick on
11/07/2007 at 08:36:30 AM

i see it like a future revolt. if we limit their populations we could limit a future revolt.

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Adam on
11/07/2007 at 12:15:58 PM

I propose that we limit how much Europe interacts with us on an economic stance, for if they interfere too much, it may eventually lead to messy alliances and such in the event of foreign wars. Therefore, Europe may trade with us and purchase our goods for manufacturing, but they will be limited as to how much money is allowed to be exchanged.

As to their general influence in our hemisphere, our nation cannot viably control the politics of all the other countries here, but I believe we should host an annual conference of Western Hemisphere Nations where European influences will be discussed.

Finally, we ought to develop as good of relationships as possible with our Latin American neighbors, seeing as they can benefit us in many ways. Trade that would have been with Europe should instead go through Latin America, and we would have a summit every 3 years between our nation and the Latin American nations to help ensure relations are still stable.

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Lisa on
11/07/2007 at 12:20:12 PM

in the interest of what would be the best course of action for a foreign policy i think would be to look at all aspects of what the other contries and continents of the world could shed light on for our newly formed government. our government may have a great start but we are still very flawed. there are things that have yet to be delt with. our nation could learn a great deal of information from europe and its influence there are some parts of that nation that work and others that dont. we could use there mistakes and advancedments to further our own government. as for our bordering nations i think that is would be a grave mistake to already create enimies w/ them so we should just be there when needed and help out where needed and dont just ignore them

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Nicholas on
11/07/2007 at 12:24:20 PM

first of all pat stop being stupid.

now first we need to keep trading with europe, half of our economy depends on trade with europe and the product produced in europe.

concerning latin america, whenever there is a revolt we need to help the rebelling group so that we have influence in that nation.

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Patrick on
11/08/2007 at 09:07:26 PM

thats real mature nick. i regret voting for you. i dont know if you know this but i have rights. i can voice my opinion, 'i' want this government to stand. its not my fault you dont take it seriously!!!

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Nicholas on
11/09/2007 at 11:48:26 AM

I don't take it seriously????

what are you talkin about? At least I can come up with ideas to help support our government. I also care about the native americans and their treaties 'We' did not 'let' the indians stay on the land they were made to go there and given rights to that land.

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Nicholas on
11/09/2007 at 11:52:54 AM

and you can't just say you want to limit their population. you have to give a way to limit their population, like limiting the ammount of immigrants allowed into the country. but you can't say you just want to limit their population it could be considered genoside.

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Nicholas on
11/09/2007 at 11:53:12 AM


---- Original Quoted Message ----
i think all the religious differences will cause trouble. the irish mainly. we need to limit their population.

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Mr. Miller on
11/12/2007 at 11:50:31 PM

Some of you swayed a bit off topic (getting on to immigration and such is sort of a different issue).  We're talking about other govenrments influencing America here.  Immigration could be a separate issue, and will.

As for today we have three basic plans to vote for.  The differences are sutble in some cases so read well, and pay attention.  Vote for one by writing in the proposal's name.  Vote wil close at the end of the day Wednesday.

The Zimmerman Doctrine:

I propose that we limit how much Europe interacts with us on an economic stance, for if they interfere too much, it may eventually lead to messy alliances and such in the event of foreign wars. Therefore, Europe may trade with us and purchase our goods for manufacturing, but they will be limited as to how much money is allowed to be exchanged.

As to their general influence in our hemisphere, our nation cannot viably control the politics of all the other countries here, but I believe we should host an annual conference of Western Hemisphere Nations where European influences will be discussed.

Finally, we ought to develop as good of relationships as possible with our Latin American neighbors, seeing as they can benefit us in many ways. Trade that would have been with Europe should instead go through Latin America, and we would have a summit every 3 years between our nation and the Latin American nations to help ensure relations are still stable.

The Fitch-Stillman Proposal

Being a new country, we need to be careful about what we allow to influence us. I do not believe we need to take any action in Europe. We wanted them to leave us alone and to break free of them, why should we go back to that country to take actions?

I don't think we need to take any actions in any other countries unless foreigners are on our soil threatening our freedoms or if there is something intolerable being done to our country. I do not feel that we need to go around taking action against others without a very good reason. I also think that the decision to take action in another country should be voted on.

I belive that we should stay out of foriegn affairs until our country and government is more established.

The Curren Proposal

now first we need to keep trading with europe, half of our economy depends on trade with europe and the product produced in europe.

concerning latin america, whenever there is a revolt we need to help the rebelling group so that we have influence in that nation.

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Nicholas on
11/14/2007 12:08:38 PM

i vote for The Curren Proposal

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Emily on
11/14/2007 at 12:15:48 PM

i vote fitch-stillman proposal

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Clark on
11/14/2007 at 12:23:10 PM

I think that we need other countries  in order to survive as a new country. they could have resources and technologies that would benefit our country. think about. good relations are almost essential to new countries

 

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Alyssa on
11/14/2007 at 12:25:47 PM

Zimmerman Doctrine

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Patrick on
11/15/2007 at 08:29:07 AM

fitch-stillman

 

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Cassandra on
11/15/2007 at 12:05:50 PM

I vote Fitch-Stillman, um because it was part of my ideas, duh.

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Samantha on
11/15/2007 at 12:06:12 PM

I think that we should take precautions in what we allow to infulence our new country.  I think that we shouldnt take actions in Europe, we are our own country now and should worry about that.  I also think that we should try to avoid taking actions with any other countries unless we are feeling threatened by them.  I vote for the Fitch-Stillman proposal.

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Brendan on
11/15/2007 at 02:21:23 PM

i think we should deff be aware of this subject and whatch closely who comes in the U.S. because these illegal immigrants are overpopulating

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Makenzi on
11/15/2007 at 02:37:30 PM

Fitch-Stillman

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Telissa on
11/16/2007 at 08:54:06 AM

fitch-stillman i vote for them

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Connie on
11/16/2007 at 08:56:10 AM

Fitch-Stillman    we shouldnt get involved with anything unless it concerns us or if it is neccessary.

 

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Brittany on
11/25/2007 at 01:46:05 PM

Zimmerman Doctorine

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Steven on
11/27/2007 at 08:42:34 AM

zimmerman doctrine

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Ryan on
11/27/2007 at 08:51:07 AM

I vote for the Fitch-Stillman Proposal

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Katelyn on
11/27/2007 at 12:10:25 PM

I vote for the fitch-Stillman proposal

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Zackery on
11/28/2007 at 08:56:30 AM

i vote for The Fitch-Stillman Proposal it sounds the best out of them

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Jessica on
11/28/2007 at 07:32:23 PM

i vote for The Fitch-Stillman Proposal  because i believe they (?) have the basic ideas for starting a new nation. we ,as a new nation ,shouldnt get involved with other countries till we have settled in and have a strong government

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Jessica on
11/30/2007 at 09:49:28 PM

I vote for Fitch-Stillman........I Think  it would be most effective and beneficial (idk if i spelled that right)

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Ryan on
12/02/2007 at 05:08:37 PM

I vote Fitch-Stillman.

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Mr. Miller on
12/02/2007 at 09:05:37 PM

And the foreign policy of choice, in a 14 - 3- 1 vote is...

The Fitch-Stillman Proposal

Being a new country, we need to be careful about what we allow to influence us. I do not believe we need to take any action in Europe. We wanted them to leave us alone and to break free of them, why should we go back to that country to take actions?

I don't think we need to take any actions in any other countries unless foreigners are on our soil threatening our freedoms or if there is something intolerable being done to our country. I do not feel that we need to go around taking action against others without a very good reason. I also think that the decision to take action in another country should be voted on.

I belive that we should stay out of foriegn affairs until our country and government is more established.

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In response to this decision, students could then visit their “Virtual World” home page where the description of their nation would be updated.  Here is an excerpt:

 

“The Fitch-Stillman Proposal was passed through congress and signed by the president setting an official foreign policy of neutrality for the nation.  This bill has set the fledgling nation on a course to develop independent from foreign influence.”

 

Along with this fictional update was an historical aside.

 

“The Proclamation of Neutrality supported by George Washington concerning the French Revolution as well as the message of his farewell address, essentially set America on the same course you have chosen.  To be immediately embroiled in European affairs could have threatened the newly won independence and autonomy of the new nation.  In this response, you have not deviated from American History.”

 

 

Forum: 11th Grade Virtual Government

Topic: Issue #3: Indian Removal - created at 12:53:01 PM on 10/30/2007 by Mr. Miller

Text: Native Rights vs. State and Government Needs

This topic was last updated at 12:01:19 AM on 11/13/2007

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Mr. Miller on
10/30/2007 at 12:58:23 PM

Position 1

Georgia:  The economic success of our nation depends on the proper and profitable use of our greatest resource, land.  The American Indian has no tradition of owning land, why should we accept claims to the contrary now.  We would like to remove these Indians to lands west of the Mississippi, where they can flourish or flounder as God sees fit.  This will allow the fertile Georgia soil to be turned into economic strength for the state and the nation.

Position 2

Natives have a valid claim to remain on Georgia soil.  They, through treaties with this government have been awarded this land.  We must honor our past agreements, even if it will impact the economy in a negative way.

Discuss the issue.  Present additional arguments.  Vote for Position 1 or Position 2.  Only vote one time.   Vote before next week Tuesday.

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Tiffany on
10/31/2007 at 07:26:19 AM

Position 1 because then they can live and be free on the west.....and we can be free on the east...but what about rivals?? I think we should then split it between south and north where they get along with eachother.

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Jennifer on
10/31/2007 at 07:26:48 AM

Indians should of been able to keep their land because they were here first they set a sorta way of life knowing how to find their own food and the government should not have forced them out of their homes

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Kathleen on
10/31/2007 at 07:27:34 AM

I think both positions have a good base, with facts to support each claim. But, personally i'd have to go with Position #2. Who are we to move one HUGE group of people, who were infact there in the first place to move elsewhere?

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Matthew on
10/31/2007 at 07:28:50 AM

position 2, the natives were there far before us so they have an inherent right to keep theyre land regardless of how much the government decides it would be best for the gov. to take the land.

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Connie on
10/31/2007 at 07:29:27 AM

Position 2 the Indians were here first and we should honor that...would you really want some strange people taking your land?? If we do honor them thier skills can be benificial to us in the future.

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Kody on
10/31/2007 at 07:29:30 AM

I would go with position 2 because they where there first before us. so we dont have a claim in own that land. and plus i think it would get us better relations with the indians and we might be able to for and alliance with them.

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Giorgio on
10/31/2007 at 07:29:33 AM

i think the indians should be able to live where they want. we get to live where ever we want and they were here before us. the indians are what made the land what we have today in some ways. the indians should not be told that they have to live in one area b/c thats whats our gov. said.

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Thomas on
10/31/2007 at 07:30:28 AM

Im not sure which one to vote for. Kathy has a good point, who are we to remove a group of people? But i think that we should remove them because more and more americans will get upset if we dont move them. And then if they go west they can have their own little territory. But in a way i think they should stay where they are. Thats were everything is set up, why move it? But Im gonna have to vote for position 1, just because i believe it could cause chaos between the americans and indians.

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Zackery on
10/31/2007 at 07:32:11 AM

the immorgrants had more say to where they lived then the indians who lived here first

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Telissa on
10/31/2007 at 07:34:03 AM

i agree with position 2 that our past treaties have to be with held no mattter what !!!! and i also agree with some of the ideas in position1 but i think that our word is all you have so if you break that then i think we will have rits from theses indians and it shoulded happen so lets keep with our words!!!!

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Brittany on
10/31/2007 at 07:37:34 AM

I vote for Position 2.

If we decided to take back the land that we gave to the Indians, what would people begin to think of us? That we can't do things that we said were going to. I think if we made a treaty stating that the Indians can have this land then we need to stick to it.

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Maty on
10/31/2007 at 07:39:55 AM

Position 2 because the indians were there before so they should be able to keep their land and live wherever they want.

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Patrick on
10/31/2007 at 07:40:03 AM

I feel the indians are just in the way. we didnt have to agree to let them stay on the land. they're just rogues that think they are fighting for 'their land'. we took it fairly.

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Jessica on
10/31/2007 at 07:43:06 AM

Im going with position 2......WE made agreements in the past with them. Why would we go back on them???  That would only probably lead to fighting thats not necessary.  

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Jesse on
10/31/2007 at 07:45:08 AM

we took the lands from the indians in the first place so y should we be kicking them out. the land is rightfully thiers after all. we just came in and settled it and screwed everything up

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Connie on
10/31/2007 at 07:46:49 AM

"thier land"?? im sorry even though they dont put the claim on thier land its still thiers the live there raise families there and hunt and farm. for all intents and purpouses it is THIER land. them fighitng back for it... well if someone told you you are dirty and worthless and put you on terrible land taking away your home giving you land that is not fertile enough the breaking promises they made to you wouldnt you fight back too??? the white man didint take it "fairly"
---- Original Quoted Message ----
I feel the indians are just in the way. we didnt have to agree to let them stay on the land. they're just rogues that think they are fighting for 'their land'. we took it fairly.

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Joshua on
10/31/2007 at 10:58:33 AM

i would vote for position 2 because it means we are sticking to are word and not taking what we said back... i think it would be more important to stick to are word then to have them removed so it is better for economy right now

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Nicholas on
10/31/2007 at 10:59:55 AM

position 2

the indians have previous treaties stating that they have a claim to the land from us. this means we must either buy the land from them or leave the land to them.

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Alyssa on
10/31/2007 at 11:05:55 AM

Our reasons for moving them should not get in the way of what we promised them in the past. They were there first and we gave them the right to stay there. Our economy is important but going back on our word is just as important. I vote for position 2..

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Jessica on
10/31/2007 at 11:10:45 AM

 I agree with Position 2 because the natives have been in Georgia/ America  long before the English colonies were established. Therefore I think that we need to respect the natives because First Come First Serve:). I don't think that they are really bringing our economy down that much.

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Lisa on
10/31/2007 at 11:13:17 AM

if i had the choose to pick other ways to get a better result i would but i have to choose from the 2 provided. so i choose #2. i think that if our government should keep all treaties made. we try to be fair to all citizens well that what we are sopossed to do but if we go back on tresties made we will be no better then other contries. if u are goin to make promises "treaties" then u must keep them! no matter what. that is what our government is based on.

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Adam on
10/31/2007 at 11:14:29 AM

Pat has a valid point, but I vote for position 2. Even though our country is expanding, there is enough room right now for European immigrants and the Indians to coexist. Besides, the Indians could prove a valuable ally and we should establish good terms with them while we still can.

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Marshall on
10/31/2007 at 11:17:17 AM

I believe that the indains should be able to keep their land.

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Kelly on
10/31/2007 at 01:16:50 PM

i feel that the indians should be allowed to keep the land that they are living on because they have been longer and they are not hurting anyone by claming the land that they are living on they only want to keep what is rightfully theirs.

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Jesse on
11/07/2007 at 08:26:42 AM

i vot for position 2

 

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Thomas on
11/07/2007 at 08:29:10 AM

i vote for position 2 because indians were here before we got here and they have the right to live on the land without being forced to move to new land.

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Steven on
11/07/2007 at 08:35:01 AM

i vote for prop. 2

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Telissa on
11/07/2007 at 08:37:09 AM

i think that we should figure out away to let the indians live with us but not force them to march!!!! i think that we should offer them land and  make compermices by asking them what we could do to keep things equal between us

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Katelyn on
11/07/2007 at 12:04:06 PM

I vote position 2 because the indians are people too. We created this country to be "the land of the free" and when our ancestors came over here, we accepted everyone. This country is truely the melting pot and that's our character. That's how it should be. everyone should have their rights here no matter what color or nationality. As for the Native Americans, let them stay in Georgie, they were there first.

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Matthew on
11/07/2007 at 12:04:09 PM

i think that proisition 2 is the better propisition because of the fact that indians do have a valid claim on  the georia land and i believe that the indians should have been able to keep more of thier land

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Clark on
11/07/2007 at 12:06:13 PM

Any of us could have been born an Indian or native american. you have to understand how they would feel if they were forced away from their own homes and have to start all over. They just don't deserve to be treated that way. i vote for proposition 2.

 

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Samantha on
11/07/2007 at 12:10:03 PM

I side with position 2.  I think that the Indians have has much right to live where they want as we do.  Even if our economy is effected my letting them stay, we shouldnt go back on our word.

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Katy on
11/07/2007 at 02:14:36 PM

I vote for position 2. Indians sould be able to stay on the land that has been awarded to them. It is where they live and it is where they have made thier home and we shouldnt send tem off land that they had first because it is rightfully theres. instead we should teach them to use the soil and how to grow crops out of it.

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Mr. Miller on
11/13/2007 at 12:01:19 AM

The Senate has voted.

25-3 (our of 62 senators, many people did not vote)  in favor of proposition 2.

Position 2

Natives have a valid claim to remain on Georgia soil.  They, through treaties with this government have been awarded this land.  We must honor our past agreements, even if it will impact the economy in a negative way.

The president supports this measure so it passes. 

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The results of this case updated the description of the nation as follows:

 

“In a shocking move, congress and the president imposed their will on what many consider a state issue.   The national government has acted in defense of Indians over that of their own citizens.  The state of Georgia teeters on the brink of rebellion and many in the state threaten secession.  The Governor of Georgia has activated the state militia and claims he will remove the natives himself.”

 

(This is followed up by a second issue.  Presidential action was needed to enforce the decision above.  The president ended up using the military to protect the rights of the natives.  Georgia will simmer on the verge of rebellion, but the issue will subside over time.  Georgia, from then on, is much more in favor of secession as a state right and is first to secede instead of South Carolina after Lincoln’s election.)

 

A true historical aside was included after this description:

 

“The class has chosen to deviate from American History.  When the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Native American land claims in the case Worcester v. Georgia, President Jackson ignored the ruling.  This created an imbalance in power between the three branches of government, making Jackson our first imperial president.  His actions ultimately led to Indian Removal and the Trail of Tears.  Your actions better preserved the balance of power in the government but threatened the survival of the union.  In reality, Georgia very well may have rebelled and other southern states likely would have followed.  This was still the age of States’ Rights.”

Forum: 11th Grade Virtual Government

Topic: Issue #4 - created at 12:58:52 PM on 10/30/2007 by Mr. Miller

Text: The Expansion of Slavery and the Balance of Power

This topic was last updated at 09:32:04 PM on 12/02/2007

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Mr. Miller on
10/30/2007 at 01:02:05 PM

We are a growing nation.  Missouri has applied for statehood.  They are a slave holding territory.  We, as a nation, has struggled to maintain a balance in the Senate between slave and free states.  Now, the current balance is threatened.  If Missouri enters the union, an imbalance will occur.  How can we deal with this situation?  Does it matter if the south gains influence?

Discuss options.  Remember, the best argument is a good plan.  Look ahead for ideas if you want help.  We have not yet covered this in class.

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Nicholas on
10/31/2007 at 11:06:01 AM

we cannot let this happen!

the use of slavery is cruel and uncalled for we need to pass a law saying that no new states can be allowed in the nation if they use slaves. we also need to outlaw slavery in all states. 

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Ryan on
10/31/2007 at 11:08:13 AM

I think that we should not allow missouri to join as a state due to the fact that they support slavery. And if they want to join the states they will have to make slavery illegal in their state. This may influence many of the other states to become slavery free states. This way it should help prevent the south from gaining to much influence.

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Patrick on
11/02/2007 at 06:18:55 PM

it will still be an imbalance if the north has a higher persentage. maybe the south knows something we northerners dont. just because we are in the north, doesnt mean we cant listen to the south.

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Mr. Miller on
11/06/2007 at 04:59:36 PM

Position from a southern senator.

What you must understand, is that we are a nation of states, who are willing to participate in this government.  If our views, our laws, our way of life will not be protected by this government...well then, maybe this government is not for us.  Why does the north fear an imbalance of power in the senate, the south already faces one in the House of Representatives.  It seems to me of little threat to any of you in the north.

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Giorgio on
11/07/2007 at 08:34:21 AM

i dont think they should be able to join as a slave state. slavery is something wrong and not fair to people. why should they have to be used for work because they are black. if they are used why arnt some whit people. if u are for slavery u should have to work life a slave

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Thomas on
11/07/2007 at 08:37:33 AM

We should not allow this for Missouri. I think slavery should not be allowed in any state. And if one state becomes a slave state, possibly others want to change in to the same thing.

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Stephen on
11/07/2007 at 08:38:06 AM

i would have to agree with benway because if we did do that with blacks for slaves alot of people now will revolt against it and the slave owners would get punished for it

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Matthew on
11/07/2007 at 12:08:33 PM

i believe that in order for a new state to be admitted into statehood it should not be connected with slavery

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Nicholas on
11/07/2007 at 12:10:56 PM

Missouri will be able to join the union but we will partition Massachusetts into two states, calling the new state Maine

also in the western territories we will hold free elections on the issue of slavery in each territory.

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Patrick on
11/08/2007 at 09:09:35 PM


---- Original Quoted Message ----

Position from a southern senator.

What you must understand, is that we are a nation of states, who are willing to participate in this government.  If our views, our laws, our way of life will not be protected by this government...well then, maybe this government is not for us.  Why does the north fear an imbalance of power in the senate, the south already faces one in the House of Representatives.  It seems to me of little threat to any of you in the north.

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Patrick on
11/08/2007 at 09:13:30 PM

if there isnt always balance, should we really change a state. maybe this will decide who is really right, north/south!

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Eric on
11/09/2007 at 08:47:43 AM

if we are a slave free state we should not allow them to join with us if they want to join with us they should banned slavery in their states

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Makenzi on
11/09/2007 at 02:08:10 PM

Of course it will matter if the south gains influence.  The South will now have the edge on deciding rather or not slave ownership should be llegal.   Why would you want a new "growing nation" to start out with something as awful as slavery?  Missouri should have to get rid of Slavery to be able and join.

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Mr. Miller on
11/13/2007 at 12:15:24 PM

Vote Time: Senators vote for one proposition.  Vote with proposition number only.  Improper votes will be ignored. Vote by the end of the week.

Northern Senators' Proposition (Proposition 1)

The idea of the expansion of slavery is simply not acceptable.  Missouri should enter the union as a free state, abolishing slavery within it's borders, or remain a territory.

Curren's Missouri Compromise (Proposal 2)

Missouri should enter as a slave state.  Mass. could be divided, creating a new free state in the north.  This situation satisfies the issue of balance and poses no threat to the north or the south.

Southern Senators Proposal (Proposal 3)

Allow Missouri to enter as slave state.  Slavery is a state issue.  Slavery is legal in this nation.  It makes no sense to differentiate between new states and old.

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Nicholas on
11/14/2007 at 12:10:43 PM

Proposal 2

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Alyssa on
11/14/2007 at 12:16:51 PM

Slavery is one thing that the north has been against for many years. If Missouri were to become apart of  the the north than they should first have to become a free state. I dont agree with letting them have anything to do with free nations if they are not willing to free their state.

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Alyssa on
11/14/2007 at 12:19:25 PM

Ops that last one wasnt a vote.. Proposition 1 is my vote

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Adam on
11/14/2007 at 12:30:21 PM

I would like to propose a new law that will hopefully solve this issue once and for all. I propose that Missouri should be allowed to enter the Union as it wishes, but there is an incentive for it to ban slavery. My proposal is for all southern slave-states (and all potential slave-states) to recieve extra economic help if they agree to ban slavery. This keeps slavery as a state issue, but it encourages states to willingly give up a degrading practice. I understand how vital slavery is to the economy of the South, so therefore we, as a nation, would agree to give aid in the form of money or diplomatic help with potential foreign buyers of the raw goods the South produces. This applies to territories wishing to enter the Union as well. Please vote either for or against this issue as soon as possible.

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Patrick on
11/15/2007 at 08:39:05 AM

if miller allows it, it sounds fair to me

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Connie on
11/15/2007 at 08:58:19 AM

I agree with what Adam proposes... the choice is the states but if they have the right incentive there is always the choice... otherwise while it is not a good thing right now there is no law so a compromise should be made at the very least...dont outright ban it right away or the ban wouldnt take.

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Nicholas on
11/15/2007 at 12:06:31 PM

i think adam has a good idea going but we also have to extend this offer to the western territories.

 

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Joshua on
11/15/2007 at 12:16:35 PM

i vote for adams proposel cause i think is a reasonable solution for the slave states

 

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Clark on
11/16/2007 at 12:20:36 PM

missouri should have the right to decide themselves, at least, until our country is ready to abolish slavery for good. until then it should be missouri's choice.

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Katelyn on
11/19/2007 at 05:14:33 PM

Missouri Should be able to decide for themselves if they want slavery or not so the government isn't given the burden of choosing for them. Missouri can choose which side they'd like to join on this fight over slavery and they'll get the reprocussions of their actions either way they decide to go so we might as well let them take the hit instead of the nation as a whole because what happens in Missouri effects the people there but at least it won't effect our national government and cause problems. So good luck with that Missouri and welcome to America. ;]

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Brittany on
11/25/2007 at 01:43:40 PM

I agree with proposal 1. I think that if Missouri enters as a slave state it is going to cause problems with our growing nation and that is not what we need.

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Steven on
11/27/2007 at 08:45:42 AM

i would have to agree with adams proposal

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Ryan on
11/27/2007 at 09:00:37 AM

I think that Missouri should enter as both a free and slave state to make sides happy. I think that the southern half should be slave and the northern half should be free. If this makes two different states then that should be the way it is.

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Cassandra on
11/27/2007 at 12:26:44 PM

My views lean towards Proposal three.

I think that the needs of the US as a whole is more important than the individual needs of one state. Meaning that if Missouri applies as a slave state, and that is not favoring the needs of the country and will cause controversy, than Missouri can not become a part of this new country. I think that keeping the balance at this time is most important, and that if Missouri is broken into two states, with each one favoring each side, that would be most beneficial to the country.

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Matthew on
11/28/2007 at 08:46:47 AM

proposition 3 it is a state issue by making it a national issue we compromise the strength of our federal government.

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Emily on
11/28/2007 at 12:29:09 PM

Curren's proposal because it makes more sense to me. Like yeah we need to make things even and curren's will do that.

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Brandon on
11/28/2007 at 02:38:03 PM

i agree with Curren's proposal because it keeps the balance in the senate and it also keeps the southern states happy

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Mr. Miller on
12/02/2007 at 09:32:04 PM

In a remarkably close vote, The Proposal added by President Zimmer has been approved. 

I would like to propose a new law that will hopefully solve this issue once and for all. I propose that Missouri should be allowed to enter the Union as it wishes, but there is an incentive for it to ban slavery. My proposal is for all southern slave-states (and all potential slave-states) to recieve extra economic help if they agree to ban slavery. This keeps slavery as a state issue, but it encourages states to willingly give up a degrading practice. I understand how vital slavery is to the economy of the South, so therefore we, as a nation, would agree to give aid in the form of money or diplomatic help with potential foreign buyers of the raw goods the South produces. This applies to territories wishing to enter the Union as well. Please vote either for or against this issue as soon as possible.

Not enough people are voting!!!

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Results updated to the national description:

 

“The United States expanded with the addition of Missouri, the newest state to be admitted to the Union.  After much debate over the impact adding another slave state would have in the Senate, congress admitted the state with the creation of a new proposal.  The government has offered an economic incentive package to any state that will willingly abolish slavery.  Southern states have scoffed at the notion but celebrate their new found dominance in the Senate.”

 

Historical aside:

 

“To deal with the issue of admitting Missouri as a slave state, the Missouri Compromise created Maine as a free state out of Massachusetts.  Included in this compromise was the agreement that slavery would never exist in any future state above the 36° 30’ line of latitude.  You have deviated from history by allowing an imbalance of power between slave states and free states in the Senate.  Later, when we reach the Compromise of 1850, you will see a similar scenario, but in this case it is the north that gains the advantage.”

Miller Project in Word

 

 
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